Welcome to my latest episode on The Freedom Formula for Physicians Podcast.
One of my secret obsessions lately has been networking with physicians on LinkedIn. It’s been a lot of fun meeting and connecting with doctors in the US and throughout the world.
Anyhow, I had reached out and mentioned in an update that I was looking for interesting guests on my next podcast episode.
A physician reached out to me and I thought he has a really cool story to tell and it got me thinking and wondering how medicine compares and contrasts with an experience overseas.
Our guest today is Dr. Sameer Gupta. He got his MBBS in India and a couple of years later moved to the US where he did his residency & fellowship.
In this podcast, we discover:
– how medicine has taken a 360 degree turn in India over the 10 years Dr. Gupta spent in the states
– Find out the differences between residency & fellowship between the US/India
15:00: Learn how US based undergrad students could save $200,00+ in educational costs (Hint: Some Indian docs pay less than ????? for all of medical school?!?!)
16:22 How Dr. Gupta had to learn a totally different language during medical school and how an adventurous US student could do the same without any problems
Dave: My name is Dave Denniston, welcome to the latest episode of the, “Freedom Formula for Physicians Podcast.” One of my secret obsessions lately, you guys, has been networking with physicians on LinkedIn. And it’s been a lot of fun, meeting and connecting, with doctors. And in the U.S. and all throughout the world. Well, anyhow, I had reached out and mentioned in an update, I was looking for some interesting guests on the next Podcast episode. And some interesting folks reached out to me. And I just thought he had a really cool story to tell. And it really got me thinking. It got me wondering? How does medicine, compare and contrast here in the U.S. with the experience overseas? So our guest today is Dr. Sameer Gupta. He got his M.D.D.A. in India. And a couple of years later he did his residency and his fellowship. And started his practice, and now that he has come back to India. Well welcome Dr. Gupta.
Dr. Gupta: Thank you for having me over.
Dave: So glad you’re here, I think it’s going to be great fun and great learning experience for us. Well, I quickly summarized your story. So, tell us more, where did you grow up? Tell us about your experience?
Dr. Gupta: Sure, yeah. A, I was born and raised in, New Delhi, which is the capital of India. I went to school, high school and everything else in New Delhi. And I stayed with my parents until that time. And then after that I decided to go into medicine. I went to medical school in a completely different part of the country, it was in the southern part of India. And I lived in a dorm, and it was a completely great experience, made very great friends, great education. After that I, you know, was offered my education, like what did I want to do with it, stuff like that. So my older sister was in the U.S. And I had been talking to her and she was kinda like my mentor in my career, and she would reach to the ultimate position. She, and then I got it going and I got to the U.S. and started training at Penn State at Hershey. And that was followed up by a couple of fellowships. And I finally finished it, everything, and graduated this past year, July of 2014. And then, got me thinking, what do I want to do? Now that you’re all done, you’re finished studying. And a we decided to move back to India. I moved back approximately, in October, around October of last year. And I’ve been working over here ever since. It’s been about nine months, and it’s been a good nine months.
Dave: Interesting. I have so many different questions about this, I guess? First, I know, tell us about the, how you got started in medicine? And in conjunction with that, with going to the U.S., was it always that plan, or was it only this moment you started talking to your sister?
Dr. Gupta: So, what got me into medicine, you know, it was a couple of things. It was, I come from a family of physicians actually. My dad’s a doctor, my mom’s a doctor, my oldest sister is a doctor. So definitely the only thing in my life. You know, my dad’s friend is a physician. So, I definitely, you know, interacted with them as kids.
And again, you know, coming to India, education is very is stressful down in growing-up Asian. There are families, you know the part of the thing is, in India is a developing country. And we do not have a lot of money, or a lot of everything else going on. People see an education as a way out, to a good life. So, education in a place like this, holds a lot of importance, unlike the U.S. and China. So, all of our elements on life, but a little bit different from the U.S. But, well, where you carry children, but quickly a lot of them being, you know, excel in extracurricular. You know, here, general theme is then you know, extracurricular are extracurricular. But that does not mean that you will not settle on education. So, with that being said, like looking at my parents and they definitely mentored my career. So, I was always exposed to medicine at an early age for someone to take up. My choice to come to the U.S. was my older, I always had some family in the U.S. Now we meet them and they come there for different holidays. And my older sister and me, she moved half during my med. School and she lingered in the U.S. So, I was a doctor there in the U.S. and she was a completely different experience. But it was a very important experience to have, it makes you a different person. So, you know, I thought about lingering, but she didn’t need for me to be there. And to my career and I decided to come to the U.S. right after medical school.
Dave: Yeah, it’s interesting, I’ve heard about India. That personally, emergency services is something that is just really in need. Because traffic particularly, major areas are so bad, that is it like that in medicine too? You know, is it a good, it’s like, back-ups, huge waits, and you know, what is it like, being a physician in India?
Dr. Gupta: A, you know, the thing is, it is something. The first couple of months, I didn’t, I did my medical school was there. And after that I did my internship, which is kind of a year round managed thing for you to do to graduate. Where you go and work in different specialties for a year or two years, and I did that, at one of the biggest hospitals in India, in New Delhi, called, “Sovisyoung Hospital.” I did an internship with them back in 2005. It was an absolute what you were talking about, it was a lot of patients and you know, just a lot of people. A lot of back-ups, a lot of waiting lines, and limited resources. But no, India, at one point was three million people. And from one country a million people, so that a lot of people. It’s about three hundred times the people compared to the U.S. in terms of people population. That is definitely something that, which is, half of what it is here in U.S. You know, traffic problems in the U.S. You know, this is sort of, you know, in the last ten years since I left and never came back. Medical It has taken a 350 degree turn.
Dr. Gupta: It has, yeah. There are a lot of big corporate hospitals, a lot of money so people are ready to get good care, they are ready for good care. You know, they have not much hospitals over here. They have entire male clinics, vascular clinics, Boston Colleges, You know, they have the casualties, they have via allocation, hosted people come, a Chicago hosted somebody from Florida next month, two actually. So, you know, a lot of people, you have a lot in common. You have international conferences. Education, so health over all is definitely improved. There are a lot of services. The technology is available, but it comes at a price.
Dave: Now, is it a single payer’s system? Or is it a private pay out of pocket? Is it a kind of combination? Where there is some sort of Medicare, like there is here? What is it like in terms of how people pay for service?
Dr. Gupta: So, the papers here is not a single care system like it is in the U.K. or the other European countries. There are multiple payers, they have what you would call a private insurance company. You can, if you’re a family of four people in the house. And your job is home giving them insurance. Then you can go and buy different insurance at a reasonable rate for the most part, from private insurance companies. If you are in anyway else, way, shape or form to be associated with a government job, or are you working for the state? You know, but for the electric, or you be working for the water works, or you’re working for the telephone department, which is public by the government. And they do provide you insurance. They do take care of your healthcare signature. But we don’t have Medicaid. But they do have all these different insurance plans. And if you do not have them, then you are supposed to pay out of pocket. Most of the governments do have, we call them, “Government hospitals” the county health clinics, are the county hospitals. These too are the much more reasonable rate, but they have limited resources. But the private places are, but you have to pay cash for services. But a quarter of the actual cash is not as good as it is in the U.S. But it definitely is more reasonable. It still comes with a cost, but a matter higher than the U.S.
Dave: Yeah, well, I get over the cost of living is, well, lower still, is it not? Or has inflation kind of caught up?
Dr. Gupta: A, inflation has definitely catching up. You know, the other day when I came, I moved back to India. I got the person who struck me, I mean I went there. They have Drive throughs, McDonalds, every nook and cranny road here. So, I learned how, it often has that often versions of this, McDonalds has, and Dunkin’ Doughnuts, they have those. They have changed the menu to suit the palate of the local population.
Dave: Yeah, no cow.
Dr. Gupta: Yeah, no cow. But they do have it, chicken to cover it, they have chicken burgers. You know, they put a patty in the middle. Some kind of patty in the middle? So, you know, they have to do that. You know, they know a little bit of the market, there’s a lot of money to be made. So, yeah.
Dave: Well, how interesting. You know, you’ve lived in both these worlds as a physician. And compare and contrast for us, medical school. What are the similarities, what are the differences in training? As you started in medical school and as you entered residency here, what did you see?
Dr. Gupta: Well, I, it’s very similar lessons, the bigger differences is in what staging in life you come to medical school. In India, you start medical school, which is also similar to Europe. Because when you start the European system, you graduate high school. And then you sort of go into college, or under grad. And medical school needs an undergraduate degree. It’s younger, it’s like four and a half, five years. But it’s still an under graduate degree. At least when you enter medical school, you’re 18. First of all that’s very different from the U.S. where you do under grad. Then you do med. School. And then you graduate, So you are graduating at 26 if you just add 4 + 4. Where as in Europe, you do 18, at five and a half. So, 22 and a half when you are all finished with it. So, that’s one very important part. And I think that changes the mind set altogether. So, you know, picture how mature you are? You know, you know what I am saying? If you do different, you know in your mind set.
Dr. Gupta: In your mind set, you need to, I’m 22. At 22, I’m already a physician.
Dave: And do they go through “Residency?” Like they do here? Is it different?
Dr. Gupta: Yes, they do have, you know, a residency program here. They do residency just similar to the one in the U.S. They do have a fellowship program in the U.S. They also have a fellowship program they do here, It’s called a different name. These are a little bit different in terms of the actual times that it takes for the residency. Like, for example, in the U.S. the residency, the time of residency, the duration of the residency program is varied. Depending on what the residents are doing? Like for example, a surgeon is literally a 7-year program, or general surgeon, it would be a five-year program. Like here a neuro-surgeon is considered like a fellowship. But a general surgeon is three years in terms of medical licensing – 3 years, Dermatology – three years, Ophthalmology – three years, a nurse. The years of the residency is standard, in respect to what profession you are doing, in the U.S. it varies. The medical school here is approximately and a little bit different like they definitely have their similarities. Like, we do a lot of clinicals there, we do a lot of clincals here. And we have an education residency for the patient care, professional care. Live clinical journey, like clinicals there about the same. But often the cost is with one very important factor.
Dr. Gupta: Which,
Dave: Tell us about that? How much does it cost, and how does that compare to the U.S.
Dr. Gupta: Well, the cost of medical school, varies dependent upon what medical school you’re actually going to? I would say there are three categories in that the schools in there. In there are the government institutions. For every state has a four or five public schools that we call, they are government schools. There are considered government tuition also. But they come, government subsidized institutions. So, you might drive away to medical school. For, if I tell you, you might not believe me, you’d laugh. Okay, you graduate with the schools direct for $400.00 – $500.00. Or if you appear.
Dr. Gupta: That’s in the public schools. However, the other side tuitions to, the educations to private institutions a little bit more expensive, than the ones in the U.S. In terms of the difference. Like, for example, if you go to a private school in India, you know, you’ll probably end up paying, about $75,000.00, over the course of three to four years.
Dave: Also not two year, but over a period.
Dr. Gupta: No, no, no, no. You know, you might graduate, you might finish off with $75,000.00 or $50,000.00 and that is the upward limit. But a lot more to do, of which we do, which would cost $20,000.00. or $25,000.00. If you are there for four years, but that’s the upper limit. In the U.S. it’s very, very, very different, right?
Dave: Oh, huge difference, that’s just for one year.
Dr. Gupta: Yeah, so, see what I mean. In a I think bigger the credit, one of the cheaper credit, schools, especially schools, even they have freedom problems. $32,000.00 every year, that’s their cost. And you know, we have students over there who become one. Unfortunately, it’s about $200,000.00 in loans.
Dave: And it, did I hear you right, that the two options, public and private medical schools. And the public was what? Less than a $1000.00 in debt once that was done?
Dr. Gupta: Yep.
Dr. Gupta: See, the government subsidizes it for you. The government subsidizes the invitation for you. They hope that you will, you know, they wanted to improve the healthcare facilities. So, they want more people to go into healthcare. I mean, that’s the entire motive. That it, they want people to go into health. And they want people to become doctors. They want people to serve and improve the quality of healthcare in the country. You know, healthcare is very long, I mean, I did after high school, I went, I graduated, I mean, I did sixteen years after high school. Sixteen years, that’s a long time.
Dave: Yeah, wow.
Dr. Gupta: So,
Dave: Do you think, one of my biggest nuts that really is so important to me, is this whole debt thing. And I write about it a lot. And one of the questions I get is? That I never really explored a whole lot? Is, for example, could an American student graduating from high school. But now they could possibly go to India, and maybe avoid under grad. Could they attend, like the kind of medical school you went to? You know, could they go to a private Indian medial school?
Dr. Gupta: You know, the question of doing that actually? One of my, I do have some family members who did that. They probably vision one was very expensive, you know, kind of expensive for them. So, they did come to a different medical school. And then, you know, they came here to 30% of what it would cost them in the U.S. As the time is concerned that probably graduated, we, you know, graduated a couple of years ahead. So, people can come here if they want that option. But, you have to realize that it’s a very different culture, here. You know what I mean? Nothing we do in medicine is as important as when you talk to the patient. You cannot be a doctor if you do not talk to patients. If you talk to patient’s then, patients don’t know any English. English is the common language. But it’s not, the language. In fact in a lot of programs I moved to a different part of the country from my medical school. And I had to learn the local language. Which was completely different from mine, my mother tongue. So, we like, it’s like in a Swahili is to Arabic.
Dave: Hum, that could be difficult.
Dr. Gupta: But that’s basically the difference. You suddenly have this language, learn the language to communicate with the patients. Which I collected.
Dave: Were you able to pick it up quickly? I mean, with that kind of difference. Was there enough of a similarities between?
Dr. Gupta: There were some similarities, maybe I exaggerated the difference a little bit. But there is some lagging in some words. But then you do, you know, your friends teach you a little bit. You learn a little bit, but from the local people. You know, “Get me some water. Get me some this.” You know, it’s not impossible, but will be challenging. You know, comparable to that, will be a lot of people come up, if you are working in New York City, where there is a big Indian population. A lot of my friends down in Florida, you have to learn Spanish to talk to the patients.
Dave: Right, absolutely.
Dr. Gupta: Right, the South American population in that you would have to learn the language. You cannot, not learn the language to deal efficiently. I think if a family does want to come here, they have to understand that it’s not only the education, it’s also interaction.
Dave: And do you think someone could, you know, someone with experience and were excited and they wanted to come and do this kind of opportunity. You know, could they, just pick it up if they go? Or would they have to know it ahead of time?
Dr. Gupta: Oh, they would absolutely pick it up at the opportunity. You know, when I was, where they had a lot of international students, there was a class from South Africa, some from the U.K. And they not know the local language which was spoken at that medical school. And then they had like training sessions at the, they had like culture classes. Where you could learn medical local language. You know, you could fill, you had apps for learning Spanish on the phone.
Dave: Yeah, yeah.
Dr. Gupta: The medical Spanish.
Dave: Yeah, very interesting. And do they, and what else do they the lectures done? When you are not treating patients, when you’re in the classroom. Are they mostly in English, like a, the medical school you went to? Was it in English.
Dr. Gupta: Sure, sure, sure. Every education is, every book we read, every exam we take, everything you do on the professional level is in English. All of it is in English, like, all the local workers there do. Like when you see patients, writing prescriptions, medicine is always in English.
Dave: That would be easy, that would be the easy part for an American to do. It’s just more of the change in culture, and I suppose they could do it when they are 18 right? I mean, they don’t have to wait till they’re 22 and a graduate student. When they are….
Dr. Gupta: Absolutely.
Dave: I mean, really, we think about it, I mean, if it’s $45,000.00 grand? Heck, it, if you go to Harvard or Stanford, for your under grad. Right, and you know, let’s say your parents are wealthy enough to take out loans at $20,000.00 a year, you’re still in the hole. Relative to having to have an education in India, before you ever go to medical school. So it….
Dr. Gupta: Right.
Dave: That is just a huge factor.
Dr. Gupta: If you are an international person and you want to come here and have this? It would have to be like this small test. But then, there would have to be like a fee for getting into the school. But the fee would still be nowhere near what they would be in the U.S. Absolutely not, I don’t know what it would be such a fee? But the rate would vary from college to college. Probably not $30,000.00 – $40,000.00 when they finish. So, the final cost would be about $75,000.00. You’re still up $175,000.00.
Dave: Wait. You’d like to break even with the under graduate, before medical school that….
Dr. Gupta: Yes.
Dave: In many cases.
Dr. Gupta: Yeah.
Dave: Huh. And including, people go through that, you know, they’re not an M.D. usually right there. There’s usually an M.D. or D.D.S. Like you were, like when you came to the U.S. or were applying for residency programs. Is there a stigma attached to M.D.D.S, do you think? Or, are most programs pretty accepting of that?
Dr. Gupta: So, you know, there usually are two things that are an impression. The first one is, The M.D.D.S. is a Bachelors, because you do a Bachelors, before medical school has a Bachelors? That’s why M.D.D.S is a Bachelors of Medicine Bachelors kind of thing, so it’s a Bachelors degree. It’s the equivalent of an M.D. for all practical purposes. But, you know, that’s why Bachelors is there, it’s a doctors of medicine, even an M.D. There are, medical school is U.S, U.S. is definitely the place, people come from all over the world there. So they do understand why an M.D.D.S. essentially really is.
But, the second part of the question is like a stigma attached to it? A, you know, I think there is and there isn’t? I mean, there is international medical graduate applying to residency in the U.S. definitely hit challenges or hurdles. Compared to the same thing here in the U.S. So, definitely more challenging, here are some examples I can give you. I mine as well list mine right off. But definitely it is a little bit more challenging getting residency from India right after you graduate. Compared to residency in the U.S. Yeah.
Dave: I sure do see a lot of people with it though, all of a sudden. I mean, I think if you look at certain positions that are more opened to it. Than others, or you know what? What’s behind that.
Dr. Gupta: Yeah, if you look at during your entire residency, the entire residency, I think. You know most of my friends, there are so much more in the U.S. then there are the people who graduate from U.S. medical schools. You know, they always say that, you know, I am in so much debt. And I want to do one specialty. But, if I do the specialty that I will be in loans forever.
Dr. Gupta: So I have to do like a specialty, which is more competitive, it pays better, it pays my loans off faster. Right now, there’s one that compares. When you come from international medical schools graduate. The U.S. is very good about candidates. So, the people from all over the world come to the U.S. And then you have this test to be in the Gene at, or Gene atomy. Which clears like a playing field, you know, a lot of playing field, for all of national graduates. It’s also given by the U.S. graduates actually. It’s called, “The USMLE.” Which stands for- United States Medical License Exam.” To take that test, and, it’s just like, everybody takes that test. It depends on who you are, and what you do? It’s like to make sure that, for you to enter the U.S. or for you, that what a brontometer used by the program to judge the competency of the applicants.
Dave: Okay, okay.
Dr. Gupta: I mean, you get, you know, you go to school in Japan and you have a guidance counselor. And then you have a guidance counselor in Africa you have applications, how do you know who have right?
Dave: Good ole’ standardized tests.
Dr. Gupta: (Chuckling) Exactly. Ah, so that’s one thing that they do. That would definitely do the same thing little bit. But, if you could, for example, if you wanted to do a comparable specialty. You decide, you know what? I will explore items I need to graduate. The room would be very difficult here, it would be even more challenging, than possible here. It would be more challenging, like 2015 there is only three spots than in the Non-U.S. GMD. In plastic surgery, like all the other spots, like my people who have gone to medical school in the U.S. is the difference than in the need for surgery. You know, about fifteen, twenty spots in the entire country. They fill those with non-high M.D’s. Compared to all the other ones that are left. You know, it’s definitely a little bit more challenging. If possible you have to pay your dues, and you can get to where you want.
Dave: Well, I’m going to mention primary care, primary care here when you talk about all the time. More primary care needed, so someone who wants to be a pediatrician, or OBGYN, or Internal Medicine. That would be highly neat subject. That would lots of spots with those residency programs, on a relative basis.
Dr. Gupta: Yep, that’s exactly the thing. That primary care definitely something that is chose, and is picked up by the National list. But most of the international does that, actually lined up spot. Didn’t expect any internal medicine, I mean medicine, pediatrics, I don’t particularly know about filling OBGYN up? But most of the people round out these three specialties. Because that goes back to the G.M.D. through acknowledge these. So you have; family care, pediatrics, A.I.D.S, Family Practice, we have Obstetrics also. Our couple of specialties are definitely more for over spending. So to say. You know, if we did. If you want to do something? It’s difficult but not impossible. And we have been very good about that. We pay our dues on that. Should you show you’re willing to work really hard? For someone who’s paid their dues, you can get to where you want to go. And that is a cultural view, that’s right.
Dr. Gupta: No matter what the dream, or what the opportunity.
Dave: Let me tell you a quick story. One of my clients, he had a very similar story to yours. Although it was a little later in life, he was born and raised in Columbia, in South America. He got his medical degree there, he started in practice. And he moved to the states a little later in his life, he was in his 40’s actually. And he went through residency and fellowship through the Mayo. And he finally transitioned to practice, and in the greater Atlanta area. And originally he was so hopeful, he was so excited, and I thought it was awesome. Because he had absolutely no doubt right? I mean, he could have cash flow. And he was looking a few months, he was just miserable, he felt trapped. And it all came back to him because of his Visa. And he needed to be in this position for three years, apparently. Before he could get his Green Card. What ended up happening is, his practice, is part of a small practice in this case. So, it wasn’t like there were hundreds of physicians. He got stuck in horrible shifts, and he finally. He got where he couldn’t take it anymore. And just decided to move back to Columbia. It wasn’t that long ago. And I look at this kinda thing and I think it’s a huge problem for our country. I mean, here we got this thing, incredibly intelligent, he’ll be paying a huge amount in taxes. A contributing individual, and we couldn’t keep him here. So, tell me about your perspective? Because you have family here, you’ve seen people move back and forth. What’s your view on dealing with physicians and Green Cards and stuff for physicians?
Dr. Gupta: So, you know, the issue with him and primitive immigration. Which I have to have, is kind of a similar thing. Is probably on a Jivon Visa, a Jivon Visa, is a Visa which is given by the U.S. Government, as a Student Exchange Visa. The Engleman Visa, you will come to the U.S., you will get an education and you will go back to your country and serve them if you want? If you don’t want to do that, then you go then to Siberia. Most of our team on this Visa. And if I want to get a Green Card, then I have get my degree by going to a place for six years. On paper this seems like a very fanciful thing to do. And you know, so and so forth. But, you are right, the U.S. guy won that. Because of this, maybe if I hadn’t had the opportunity, I would not have wanted to deal with all this? And going to a third world area, and working, a tight little fine job. And being abused, it’s just simply not worth my time. I work too hard to do that.
Dr. Gupta: You know what I mean? I work too hard to do that. I do not believe why I am here. Going back there, which is something I will always thought about? What if I had an opportunity to do that? It’s kind of a, rock in a hard place? You do want to make sure that you can contribute to even the healthcare system and that’s what the U.N. does. Technically, when they go and offer people to come to the U.S. on a Visa. But, on the flip side. They want everybody who comes to stay too. You know, but, if you want to, I think, this should be made more easy. And they should be given the option to be in a better way. Than supposed to do something that makes you uncomfortable.
Dave: Yeah, what kind of advice would you give to someone? What kind of advice would you give to someone? What if they’re in residency right now. They have a fellowship, they have an M.D.D.S. and they want to consider transitioning to practice, and stay in the U.S. What advice would you give to them to avoid this kind of situation?
Dr. Gupta: I would suggest, plan early, just start early you know it. If you are in your first year, or second year. And even if start applying, write what you are going to do the day you will graduate. A year and a half ago, at least a year and a half in advanced. If you don’t have a job, and you are eight months until you graduate, you’re in trouble. So if you, if that’s what you want to stay in practice it would be an issue. But, absolutely, you should be on your game. You have to work very hard when doing that, apart from your job.
Dave: Now do you think it’s better being in a bigger hospital setting, or a smaller practice? You know, if you could compare and contrast those two? Which do you think? Obviously, each situation’s different, but if you had to generalize, which do you think would be more advantageous internationally?
Dr. Gupta: I think a bigger hospital would definitely be more advantageous. And the reason is that in the way that we found there would seem to have, a lot of these smaller clinics in town. They don’t feel like the typical business model. A hospital may cross over and move the hospital. Making a profit from the shut-down. From the ones you don’t be, it’s like, Oh, my God I’m out of a job for a year and a half, now what do I do? So I think tactfully, I would consider a bigger hospital, my employer, compared to a group, it has harder issues. Because they are a little bit more for the ability that comes a long with it.
Dave: Right, right, right. And you, usually there’s more physicians around, which I think is my lesson. That I’m seeing this physician go through it. You know, it paid more being part of the small group. But it wasn’t worth the cost emotionally that he had to go through.
Dr. Gupta: Yeah, absolutely. You know, the hospital’s, for the most part will have a strict code of conduct. Compared to a small mom and pop shop, which will have four or five physicians working in a group. You know, the code of conduct, you know, will cover you a little bit, but straight away there. The book of revelations and all that stuff.
Dave: Well, do you have any closing thoughts you want to share, before we wrap up here?
Dr. Gupta: No, I feel that, one thing I would like to tell everyone. If you are planning to come to the U.S. it definitely is a beautiful experience. I always wanted to imagination, it definitely made me a better person. It broadened my horizons, they should consider that, very quiet, keep your chin up. And you know, know who you are. And have fun in the U.S. and enjoy it and look at it a lot. Have a lot of fun, a lot of family. Enjoy my time there, and who knows? It may happen, right?
Dave: Would you ever come back do you think? Is that something that could happen in the future?
Dr. Gupta: I don’t know you know? When I moved to the U.S. it took me a couple of years because I was assisting over there, and everything else. And as each month, you know. I came and collinate minds. It made a lot, I’m going to go back in two years. I left too early. I really like it here and I have family here. And I have a shop here, I have a shop.
Dr. Gupta: And I’m very smart with it.
Dave: A huh. Life is a little easier, family is so important. Well, I just want to thank you Dr. Gupta for your time. I think this was fantastic, and I think it really helps a lot of people and so if you are a resident and you are listening to this. You might have questions for Dr. Gupta? What would be the best way to get a hold of you?
Dr. Gupta: Um, let’s see? The best way, yeah. My Email address – email@example.com
Dave: Wonderful. Cool, well thank you again, for your time. If you are a physician and you are listening to this Podcast. And you want to have another subject covered, or you’re interested in being a guest yourself, we’d love to have you on, talk about it. For the Freedom for Physicians Podcast, this is Dave Denniston, thank you so much for listening. We’ll check in again soon.